'Jihadi John': Extremists 'not radicalised by MI5'

by Emily Straton and Biodun Iginla, BBC News, London

Extremists like Mohammed Emwazi are not becoming radicalised because of their contact with security services, the ex-chief of MI6 Sir John Sawers has said.

He told the BBC such suggestions were "very false and very transparent".
Security services have been criticised for being aware of Emwazi, known as 'Jihadi John', and not preventing him from joining Islamic State.
Sir John said security services faced 'more criticism' if someone they were not aware of committed an atrocity.
Emwazi, who has been pictured in the videos of the beheadings of Western hostages, was identified this week as a Kuwaiti-born British man, in his mid-20s and from west London.
Speaking to BBC Radio 4's Today programme, Sir John said: "These people draw attention to themselves because of their activity, their mixing, participation in extremist and sometimes terrorist circles, so of course they're going to draw attention to themselves."

He said an approach by security services to individuals they suspected of becoming extremist was an opportunity for them "to draw back from the terrorist groups" and acted as a warning.
"But the idea that somehow being spoken to by a member of MI5 is a radicalising act, I think this is very false and very transparent," he said.
MI5 is coming under pressure to explain why its officers spent five years talking to Emwazi before he left the country for Syria.

'Thousands of concern'

Sir John, who served as head of MI6 for five years, defended the security services, saying they "do a really professional job".
"Of course they know many of these individuals, most of them who end up taking part in terrorist organisations," he said.
"They'd be more subject to criticism if someone came and committed an atrocity in this country or elsewhere who they had no knowledge of whatsoever."
He said: "There are probably several thousand of these individuals of concern and the numbers are rising as more people go to Syria and Iraq.

"And no-one is talking about rounding up all these people or keeping 100% coverage, there's just not the resources to do that and it would be contrary to our principles of human rights to do that, so you have to find a balance."

UK-based advocacy group Cage has suggested that MI5 may have contributed to the radicalisation of Emwazi.
Downing Street said that suggestion was "completely reprehensible", while London mayor Boris Johnson described Cage's comments as "an apology for terror".
Mr Cameron has defended the UK's security services, praising the work of "these extraordinary men and women".
Mr Cameron went on to say the security services' "dedication and work has saved us from plots on the streets of the UK that could have done us immense damage" within the last few months.

'Talk a good game'

Mr Johnson said it did renew the argument about control orders - a form of house arrest for terrorist suspects - which were abolished by the coalition government in 2012 and replaced with Terrorism Prevention and Investigation Measures (TPims).
"It is vital when you are controlling these people to be able to relocate them, to take them away from their support networks and to monitor them properly," he said.

David Anderson, the government's independent reviewer of terror legislation, said it was difficult not to have sympathy with the security services "when you see just how many cases they have to look at".
"A lot of people talk a good game when it comes to terrorism. The knack is identifying the few who are going to do something about it."

• 1. Aug 2009, refused entry to Tanzania: travels to Tanzania with two friends, but is refused entry at Dar es Salaam. Tanzanian police have denied Emwazi's name is on their database of suspected foreign criminals detained and deported in 2009, as he had claimed. Emwazi and his friends are put on flight to Amsterdam, where they are questioned. They return to Dover and are questioned again.
• 2. Sept 2009, travels to Kuwait for work: leaves the UK for Kuwait for work.
• 3. May/June 2010, returns to UK for holiday: he returns to the UK for an eight-day visit.
• 4. July 2010, refused re-entry to Kuwait: Emwazi returns to the UK once more for a couple of days. He is stopped at Heathrow on his return to Kuwait and told he cannot travel as his visa has expired.
• 5. 2013, travels to Syria: Emwazi changes his name to Mohammed al-Ayan and attempts to travel to Kuwait but is stopped and questioned. Three days later, he heads abroad. Police later inform his family he has travelled to Syria.

Source: Cage

Ukraine now a 'crisis for Russia and West', says ex-MI6 boss

by Emily Straton and Biodun Iginla, BBC News, London

4 minutes ago


The conflict in Ukraine is now part of a much bigger crisis between Russia and the West, MI6's former head has said.

Sir John Sawers warned the crisis was no longer about just Ukraine, saying it was "much bigger and more dangerous".
Any attempt by Western countries to arm Ukraine could lead to an escalation on the ground and even cyber attacks by Russia against the West, he warned.
Fighting between Ukrainian forces and pro-Russian rebels has continued, more than a day after a ceasefire was due.
Sanctions have already been imposed on Russia, and EU leaders have threatened Moscow with further measures if the planned ceasefire is not respected.
US President Barack Obama has said the US is studying the option of supplying lethal defensive arms to Ukraine - if diplomacy fails to end the crisis in the east of the country.

'Thousands of deaths'

However, giving a speech at King's College London, Sir John, who left MI6 in November, warned any attempt by the West to arm the Ukrainian government could lead to an escalation of tensions with Russia.

President Vladimir Putin has accused the West of causing the crisis in Ukraine

"Sanctions on Russia are imposing costs. But the Ukraine crisis is no longer just about Ukraine. It's now a much bigger, more dangerous crisis, between Russia and Western countries, about values and order in Europe," he said.
Western countries could "take on Moscow" by providing weapons to Ukraine so it can defend itself and introducing more stringent sanctions, he said.
But Sir John warned Russian President Vladimir Putin was likely to respond.
"As long as Mr Putin sees the issue in terms of Russia's own security he will be prepared to go further than us. So he would respond with further escalation on the ground. Perhaps cyber attacks against us.
"We have thousands of deaths in Ukraine. We could start to get tens of thousands, then what?"
The crisis might end up with a "new debilitating frozen conflict in Ukraine, for well into the future," he warned.
"That is a wretched outcome for Ukrainians. But it may be the least bad attainable outcome."

Fighting has continued between rebels and Ukrainian forces in eastern Ukraine

Sir John, who also served as ambassador to the UN and as a foreign policy adviser to former Prime Minister Tony Blair, said that recent interventions in Afghanistan and Iraq had proved costly to the UK.
"In the wake of Iraq and Afghanistan, Britain is pulling back from international intervention, just as America pulled back after the Vietnam war," he said.
But he warned that not intervening in Syria, and not sending ground troops into Libya, had resulted in "growing chaos" which has been "exploited by fanatics".
"Yes, intervening has huge risks and costs," he said. "Not intervening also has huge risks and costs.
"Afghanistan and Iraq? Or Syria and Libya? Which outcome is worse? Perhaps it's too early to say. We need to have that debate."
Sir John also warned that the UK's intelligence services were "weaker", following revelations by Edward Snowden, the former US spy agency contractor who disclosed the extent of surveillance and electronic monitoring by US and British government agencies.
"All of us, you and me here tonight, are more at risk from terrorism and cyber attack," he warned.
"Why? Mainly because technology companies have scaled back previous quiet cooperation with intelligence agencies."